What would you do? Options

[Frascati]

Hi

AG has a number of limitations. One is that it will sometimes tell you to pick up wagons but then not tell you what to do with them. On a straightforward pull from A to B that's simple... you end up with the string in tow, looking for a yard marshal to tell you where to put them... and he probably would... but luckily the activity ends before he has a chance.

But on a turn it's more problamatic... My situation is this. I'm in Klamath in the BN E Yard, about to set out on a turn to Crescent Lake (100 miles away) I have to pick up 3 empties in the yard with no destination set. So what should I do...

Do I drag them to Crescent Lake and back to Klamath (200 miles round trip) Or do I Assume I've just been asked to move them in the yard and shuffle them to the back of the cut they're in (having nowhere better to put them).

The above is a special case, but it highlights that in fact I could satisify ALL of the pickups en-route by simply picking them up and dropping them off somewhere nearby...

And on a turn, would I leave the outward pickups at Crescent Lake and the Inward at Klamath?

It's a bit much to expect AG to tell you this sort of stuff, and I guess I'm left to do whatever I want with them...

But a set of House rules would be good to keep me on the straight and narrow.

I propose the following... (The underlying pricipal is to minimise movement)

1) pickups at the beginning of a turn activity with no destination are assumed to be movements to the rear of the cut that they are currently in.

2) Outward pickups are left at a convenient track at the turn location for forwarding.

3) Inward pickups are brought home.

Nuff Said. Comments please...

[sgdavis]

One of the things that the kuju programmers missed is when writing MSTS was making the Save files unicode text readable. If they had done this all sorts of things become possible... persistant environments, basing an activity on the outcome of a previous activity, and in the case of AG, serious post activity analysis.

But that's history... A quantum leap forward for MSTS which might breathe in new life would be for someone to decode the save files, say a utility that would unpack them into unicode (though the idea of editing the unicode, re-packing and loading the save would be highly unlikely to work). The unpacked save file could then possibly be used as a basis to generate new activities, or analysed as to what wagons finished where... Obviously this would be a long road, with many pitfalls ahead, but it would have a 'pot of gold' at the end.

The MSTSBin people must have a fair idea as to what is in the save file and where. From the AG analysis point of view, the problem would be smaller than trying to understand the whole file. You can ignore most of the file as long as you can identify the information you need to do the analysis. That is the end positions of wagons. There would have to be some way of tying back the internal MSTS physical view of the route with the logical view taken by the AG.

Youre right about that one.  I've often wondered about a more persistent environment based on starting with the save files and basing activities on that.  I think it might be possible to render these readable, I'll have a look and see.  This would open up the possibility of a more advanced, "disciplined" ActivityGenerator program more similar to some of the Model Railroad car shipment programs.  So we'd track how often industries needed various cars and call for work depending on the needs, something like that.  I'd think you wouldn't just want to leave the .sav file as is though, you'd want to replace some cars with others.  For instance if you delivered empty coal cars to a coal mine, when you generated the next activity those would be subbed for loaded cars (assuming the mine loaded them) and you would then haul them elsewhere.  I'd be interested in your thoughts as to how such a program might work.  Basically you'd need to build an elaborate set of rules (I'd think) about the various online industries and how often they needed to ship/receive various car types.  Creating the templates for something like this would be a much more involved exercise but the world that would be created would be a lot more immersive for the true enthusiast.  There IS a program out there that does a better job of analyzing the outcome of activities, tracks success, etc. and many of the virtual railroads use it.  It's a program called "Activity Enhancer" by Rich Garber.  If you'll go to Rich's web site (I have a link in the "MSTS Links" section of the Skyline web site) you can look for this and see what you think.

I keep thinking that in real life there is no MSTS to tick off drops and setouts. You do the best you can and go home with a 'job well done'

I've seen real railroaders running with switch lists and they check them off as they get the work done.  Then if they "die on the law" or their shift ends, the crew taking over knows where they left off.  Also when the return to the yard or end their run the yardmaster or trainmaster can check if work was missed or certain cars that should be on the train, weren't.

If AG arbitrarily told you on a drop to set out 'wagons behind.in front those on the sidings', It would not effect the current MSTS logic for completion at all. You could do it or not. It would become an 'honour thing'.

Actually it IS possible to enforce the order of the setouts, using an "assemble train at location" event.  AG doesn't currently do this but scripted activities can.  If there's more interest I could see adding this feature.  Most of my users seem to like more freedom rather than strict orders that must be followed to the letter.  I'd be interested to hear from others as to whether there is interest in this feature.  I could add it as an option that could be turned on or off when generating activities.

Two ideas occur to me. An extra column in the track csv file, of 'special instructions' for pickups and drop offs. Contents something like 'setouts to go nearest the buffers', or more ambitiously 'Empties to go to such and such siding'

Or AG could come up with a finishing arrangement for each track to be worked, just like in assembling a consist...

You coul always add special instructions for each spur to the template docs, and users could follow those, or not, on the "honor system" as you said.  Also your idea of a finishing arrangement, as I mentioned above, could definitely be implemented if there is interest.

I am getting ready to start work on version 4 of AG.  I'm not currently planning the enhancements you mention here, though I'll consider those for that or a later future version (the reading of save files will likely have to be handled via an entirely different program).  Take a look at my post "AG4 Enhancement Ideas" in this forum and let me know what you think of those enhancements.

Thanks,

Steve