Sequential Pickups Problem Options

[tjbuege]

Hi,

I'm running version 4.2.11 of Activity Generator. In the documentation , it states that "if simple mode is NOT checked, you may be required to pick up the first, 5th and 8th cars on that spur". I am not finding that to be the case. More often than not, most of the pickups remain sequential, regardless of the state of this check box option.

Additionally, if I uncheck the sequential pickup option, I end up with an activity where cars are to be delivered to TWO destinations! Put another way, I am to deliver cars to both industry tracks, and to the final destination yard track. This is not a problem if I check the sequential pickup option.

What's going on here? Is this a bug? Or is there a problem with they way I've designed my template?

Thanks,
Tim

[nbeveridge]

Hi,

I'm running version 4.2.11 of Activity Generator. In the documentation , it states that "if simple mode is NOT checked, you may be required to pick up the first, 5th and 8th cars on that spur". I am not finding that to be the case. More often than not, most of the pickups remain sequential, regardless of the state of this check box option.

Additionally, if I uncheck the sequential pickup option, I end up with an activity where cars are to be delivered to TWO destinations! Put another way, I am to deliver cars to both industry tracks, and to the final destination yard track. This is not a problem if I check the sequential pickup option.

What's going on here? Is this a bug? Or is there a problem with they way I've designed my template?

Thanks,
Tim

Depending on the template design, number of cars to work and the track selected, you might still get all sequential car for pick up. For instance, if the track only holds a few cars (say 3) and you allow more than that per move (say 5), then you will likely get all three cars from that track, and thus they are sequential. Or if the designer set up the track to be "unit" pick up, such as at a coal mine, then the cars will always be sequential regardless of whether this box is checked. Try generating the same activity multiple times to see if it sometimes will be non-sequential. The more capacity on a given track, the more likely that the cars will NOT be sequential.

As for the other problem, we have seen this in the past, but I don't remember the exact circumstances. I do remember that if this happened, it was due to some unusual set up of the activity and I could not get it to repeat. I.e. when this turned up, if I exited AG, and then restarted AG, then even if I set up what I thought was the same activity, it would not repeat.

If you somehow get this to repeatedly happen, then please run the diagnostics with the activity. Then gather all the activity files plus the diagnostic reports and send them to Steve.

[tjbuege]

Depending on the template design, number of cars to work and the track selected, you might still get all sequential car for pick up. For instance, if the track only holds a few cars (say 3) and you allow more than that per move (say 5), then you will likely get all three cars from that track, and thus they are sequential. Or if the designer set up the track to be "unit" pick up, such as at a coal mine, then the cars will always be sequential regardless of whether this box is checked. Try generating the same activity multiple times to see if it sometimes will be non-sequential. The more capacity on a given track, the more likely that the cars will NOT be sequential.

Yes, I realize that if I am asking to pick up 5 cars and the track only has 3, then they will always be sequential. But I am seeing this behavior on tracks where there are 3-4 cars and only one is being picked up. 9 times out of 10, the first car (car "0") is being picked up. So it's not 100% of the time, but it's not very random, either. Regarding the "unit" type of track, where is that documented? I've looked through the manual (pdf), but it only mentions that the designer can designate a track as "unit". It does not say how. This is a template I've written myself. Could I have inadvertantly set the tracks all to unit? I'm guessing that is not the case, since as I mentioned, every once in a rare while, a car will be requested for pick up that is not the first car on the track.

As for the other problem, we have seen this in the past, but I don't remember the exact circumstances. I do remember that if this happened, it was due to some unusual set up of the activity and I could not get it to repeat. I.e. when this turned up, if I exited AG, and then restarted AG, then even if I set up what I thought was the same activity, it would not repeat.

If you somehow get this to repeatedly happen, then please run the diagnostics with the activity. Then gather all the activity files plus the diagnostic reports and send them to Steve.

Oh, this is very repeatable. Exiting out of AG does not help. Although, I have noticed that if I generate multiple activities during the same AG session (without exiting out between each generated activity), I'll start to see some strange results, such as fewer and fewer cars placed on the tracks, and included in the generated activity. Eventually AG will crash with an error message (which I cannot recall just now), suggesting there is some memory leak somewhere. Next time that happens I'll make note of it. Anyhow, I'll get the information you suggested and send it to Steve.

Thanks,
Tim

[sgdavis]

Yes, I realize that if I am asking to pick up 5 cars and the track only has 3, then they will always be sequential. But I am seeing this behavior on tracks where there are 3-4 cars and only one is being picked up. 9 times out of 10, the first car (car "0") is being picked up. So it's not 100% of the time, but it's not very random, either. Regarding the "unit" type of track, where is that documented? I've looked through the manual (pdf), but it only mentions that the designer can designate a track as "unit". It does not say how. This is a template I've written myself. Could I have inadvertantly set the tracks all to unit? I'm guessing that is not the case, since as I mentioned, every once in a rare while, a car will be requested for pick up that is not the first car on the track.


Oh, this is very repeatable. Exiting out of AG does not help. Although, I have noticed that if I generate multiple activities during the same AG session (without exiting out between each generated activity), I'll start to see some strange results, such as fewer and fewer cars placed on the tracks, and included in the generated activity. Eventually AG will crash with an error message (which I cannot recall just now), suggesting there is some memory leak somewhere. Next time that happens I'll make note of it. Anyhow, I'll get the information you suggested and send it to Steve.

Thanks,
Tim

I first need to separate whether this is a problem with Activity Generator, or the template you created. So, I'd like to ask you to download another AG4 template, and generate an activity. Let me know if you still experience the behavior you describe. If you do, the problem is related to Activity Generator and we'll figure out what it is and issue a fix. If you don't experience the same problem with another template, then the issue is with the template you wrote.

For more information on creating your own templates, beyond what's in our manual, you might try our Video Tutorials, available at on our Video Tutorials page, http://www.skylinecomputing.com/video_tutorials.htm

Thanks,

Steve

[tjbuege]

I first need to separate whether this is a problem with Activity Generator, or the template you created. So, I'd like to ask you to download another AG4 template, and generate an activity. Let me know if you still experience the behavior you describe. If you do, the problem is related to Activity Generator and we'll figure out what it is and issue a fix. If you don't experience the same problem with another template, then the issue is with the template you wrote.

For more information on creating your own templates, beyond what's in our manual, you might try our Video Tutorials, available at on our Video Tutorials page, http://www.skylinecomputing.com/video_tutorials.htm

Thanks,

Steve

Per the email I sent you, I've tried generating activities using both the Niagara Corridor template and the Sandpatch template found online here in the template library. I see the same problem with cars billed to be setout at both industries AND at a final track...two destinations. So the problem goes beyond just my own template I've written.

I did look at the video tutorials when I first purchased AG last year. They were helpful.

Thank you,
Tim

[sgdavis]

Per the email I sent you, I've tried generating activities using both the Niagara Corridor template and the Sandpatch template found online here in the template library. I see the same problem with cars billed to be setout at both industries AND at a final track...two destinations. So the problem goes beyond just my own template I've written.

I did look at the video tutorials when I first purchased AG last year. They were helpful.

Thank you,
Tim

That is interesting. Norm says he believes this can occur when a user has high numbers for the train (such as 99 for pick up and set out) AND when the user generates multiple activities without exiting AG in between generating those activities.

You mentioned a "memory leak". There is not actually a memory leak because we don't allocate memory on the fly, we allocate a fixed amount of memory to store all the data. However there IS behavior very similar to a memory leak and I have not yet been able to identify the cause. Some variable or variable, somewhere, is not being cleared or re-initialized between successive runs of activity generation. I do need to fix this and will continue to try but my best advice right now is to generate an activity, then exit Activity Generator and enjoy your activity (or restart then generate another). You can save your settings between runs as you know by using the "save settings" feature.

When I generate activities on my own I don't get duplicate destinations.

Any other users out there seeing this behavior?

Thanks,

Steve

[tjbuege]

That is interesting. Norm says he believes this can occur when a user has high numbers for the train (such as 99 for pick up and set out) AND when the user generates multiple activities without exiting AG in between generating those activities.

You mentioned a "memory leak". There is not actually a memory leak because we don't allocate memory on the fly, we allocate a fixed amount of memory to store all the data. However there IS behavior very similar to a memory leak and I have not yet been able to identify the cause. Some variable or variable, somewhere, is not being cleared or re-initialized between successive runs of activity generation. I do need to fix this and will continue to try but my best advice right now is to generate an activity, then exit Activity Generator and enjoy your activity (or restart then generate another). You can save your settings between runs as you know by using the "save settings" feature.

When I generate activities on my own I don't get duplicate destinations.

Any other users out there seeing this behavior?

Thanks,

Steve

Just to be clear, when I gen'd activities using the Niagara and Sandpatch templates, it was not a "multiple" session. I started AG, generated the activity, and saw the duplicate destinations.

Also, I don't need to have high #'s for the train. even with a max cars to handle set at 15, I saw duplicate destinations.

I'm willing to try anything you think might help you troubleshoot this. Maybe something you might do is find a clean installation of Windows, and install a clean copy of AG, the same one on the website. Could there be the possibiliity that you have a version that has been worked on? Just a thought.

Thanks,
Tim

[sgdavis]

Just to be clear, when I gen'd activities using the Niagara and Sandpatch templates, it was not a "multiple" session. I started AG, generated the activity, and saw the duplicate destinations.

Also, I don't need to have high #'s for the train. even with a max cars to handle set at 15, I saw duplicate destinations.

I'm willing to try anything you think might help you troubleshoot this. Maybe something you might do is find a clean installation of Windows, and install a clean copy of AG, the same one on the website. Could there be the possibiliity that you have a version that has been worked on? Just a thought.

Thanks,
Tim

Thanks, based on this I am really puzzled. I always post the latest version so what I have on my machine is the same as what is on the web site. Also I tend to get new laptops fairly frequently and I always install MSTS and AG on them so I can test on a clean install. I am running Windows XP currently.

I will take the Niagara template and generate activities and see if I get duplicate destinations. I may not be able to get this done for a few days though. If I can duplicate this problem I am confidant that I can solve it.

Thanks and sorry about the problems,

Steve

[sgdavis]

Thanks, based on this I am really puzzled. I always post the latest version so what I have on my machine is the same as what is on the web site. Also I tend to get new laptops fairly frequently and I always install MSTS and AG on them so I can test on a clean install. I am running Windows XP currently.

I will take the Niagara template and generate activities and see if I get duplicate destinations. I may not be able to get this done for a few days though. If I can duplicate this problem I am confidant that I can solve it.

Thanks and sorry about the problems,

Steve

Update to this. I cannot duplicate the "non-random" problem. As I mentioned in my email direct to you, but repeat here for the benefit of others who might observe the same behavior, because of the way AG4 places railcars into the "world" on an as-needed basis (to minimize drag on the program and frame rates and try not to hit the MSTS ~500 car maximum), pickups from any tracks you select as "source tracks" are always sequential regardless of the setting of the "simple mode" check box. It is only the industry tracks that are randomized. To get the most variety either start w/ cars already on your train and work only Industry tracks, or just make sure there are a lot of industry tracks checked to work. As a reminder, "Industry Tracks" in AG are tracks on which cars might be set out, and from which they might be picked up. Further, cars picked up on "Industry Tracks" may be set out on "Destination Tracks" if any of those are selected. "Source Tracks" only supply cars and will not have setouts. So if you want to do yard work, it is probably better to have a track or two in the yard as a source track, and the rest as industry tracks, to get movement and variety.

However, I am surprised to report that I WAS able to duplicate the "duplicate destinations" issue you reported. It is not related to your specific template, it is apparently caused by unchecking the "simple mode" box. I need to review my algorithm for non-simple mode activity generation and correct this.

Once I have this figured out and resolved I will post an update to AG4 for all.

Thank you for reporting and identifying this bug and your patience in working with us on narrowing down the issue.

Best,

Steve

[sgdavis]

Update to this. I cannot duplicate the "non-random" problem. As I mentioned in my email direct to you, but repeat here for the benefit of others who might observe the same behavior, because of the way AG4 places railcars into the "world" on an as-needed basis (to minimize drag on the program and frame rates and try not to hit the MSTS ~500 car maximum), pickups from any tracks you select as "source tracks" are always sequential regardless of the setting of the "simple mode" check box. It is only the industry tracks that are randomized. To get the most variety either start w/ cars already on your train and work only Industry tracks, or just make sure there are a lot of industry tracks checked to work. As a reminder, "Industry Tracks" in AG are tracks on which cars might be set out, and from which they might be picked up. Further, cars picked up on "Industry Tracks" may be set out on "Destination Tracks" if any of those are selected. "Source Tracks" only supply cars and will not have setouts. So if you want to do yard work, it is probably better to have a track or two in the yard as a source track, and the rest as industry tracks, to get movement and variety.

However, I am surprised to report that I WAS able to duplicate the "duplicate destinations" issue you reported. It is not related to your specific template, it is apparently caused by unchecking the "simple mode" box. I need to review my algorithm for non-simple mode activity generation and correct this.

Once I have this figured out and resolved I will post an update to AG4 for all.

Thank you for reporting and identifying this bug and your patience in working with us on narrowing down the issue.

Best,

Steve

I have resolved the "dual destination" issue and sent you a fix. If it is satisfactory, I will post this as an update.

Thanks,

Steve