Burton-Derby template Options

[dgionet]

Hi to all,

I have finally decided to back down from building a template for the Cannock Chase route for the time being. I have turned my attention instead to the UK’s Burton Derby V2 route because for those having the route CD, plenty of rolling stock is included with the route and greatly simplifies its selection . So for those who will be using the template, the only download required is the route CD available by purchase at UKTrainSim. And thanks to Moe Smith who suggested on the forum this great route, which I have ordered the CD version. It took only three days from the U.K. to get it here after notification it was sent by mail. It costs about 5£ or about $10 dollars.

I had started installing markers on the sidings, not being aware of exactly how many sidings were present, I knew that there were many. I actually thought the number to be around 400 or less. As work progressed, I was about to find out…

Well I have finished earlier today putting markers on the 765 sidings (yes, you did read 765!) of the route. A massive undertaking! And I had to stop there, I may have reached a limit in the number of loose consists because MSTS wouldn't load beyond that limit. I had to scrap about thirty markers to save it. It is estimated that Burton-Derby has about 850 sidings. Most of the remaining sidings are off the main line and I was able to link the last stretch of route undone as of today.

Yet this first step has been well planned and carefully monitored; lots of paperwork in order to keep track of about 20 regions and especially the consists numbers. This will be key to tackling the next step to assign regions (using letters of the alphabet, not numbers).

This will be a major task because of the many identical siding names present in the route and re-calculating the siding cars capacity as specified on the Steyning template topic. If everything goes as planned, I hope to have in this package 4 templates; EB, NB, SB and WB, each having from 5 to 10 paths each template and plenty of traffic since most of the tracks are double tracks.

I will be sending Steve a request to send me the TDB file taking into account the sidings car capacity based on 8 meters per car. Here's a map of the route to give you an idea of its complexity. This is one route I would like to have it reached completion. Much to go ahead!

Denis

[sgdavis]

...

I will be sending Steve a request to send me the TDB file taking into account the sidings car capacity based on 8 meters per car. Here's a map of the route to give you an idea of its complexity. This is one route I would like to have it reached completion. Much to go ahead!

Denis

This is a massive, complex track database! In creating the TDB CSV file, I found that there were actually 2400 siding markers (there are 2 for every track). This exceeded the limits of Activity Generator, which had a capacity of 2000 sidings. So I have increased the limit to 4000. I generated the file and it seems to work. I won't post this as an official AG update though until Denis has generated some activities and let me know if there are also other errors. I will probably end up purchasing this route so I can double-check this since I had to enhance AG to handle it.

My compliments to Denis for pushing the envelope!

--Steve

[nbeveridge]

This is a massive, complex track database! In creating the TDB CSV file, I found that there were actually 2400 siding markers (there are 2 for every track). This exceeded the limits of Activity Generator, which had a capacity of 2000 sidings. So I have increased the limit to 4000. I generated the file and it seems to work. I won't post this as an official AG update though until Denis has generated some activities and let me know if there are also other errors. I will probably end up purchasing this route so I can double-check this since I had to enhance AG to handle it.

My compliments to Denis for pushing the envelope!

--Steve

No way I can keep up with this! Maybe it's time for me to retire from template development.

I doubt that anyone would have attempted a route of this size prior to AG3. The old SLG was a great, ground breaking program, but at that time car placement for a route and then revision of that placement was painful even when the route had only 70 tracks. This is 30 times that number!

Not only should Denis be applauded, but so should Steve, for developing AG4 to the point where a template designer can get his arms around a route of this magnitude.

[sgdavis]

No way I can keep up with this! Maybe it's time for me to retire from template development.

...

Not only should Denis be applauded, but so should Steve, for developing AG4 to the point where a template designer can get his arms around a route of this magnitude.

Thanks Norm ... but PLEASE don't retire from template development! You are too good!!!

--Steve

[dgionet]

Thanks Norm ... but PLEASE don't retire from template development! You are too good!!!

--Steve

Hi Norm,

I second Steve's comment, you are and will be always a key figure in this part of the world!

Keep up the great work !

Denis

[dgionet]

Hi to all,

Just a first update to the BD template. Steve has sent me the updated TDB file to have the car capacity based on 10 meters per car.and done the proper modifications to harmonise both ACT and TDB files. A perfect match in siding numbers before proceeding with the region naming.

However a problem occured last night with the AE. The loose consists as well as their numbers dissapeared on the screen, they do not reappear. Since I have put each region information on paper( consist numbers within each region, numbers of sidings for each region), this will help. Also I had to copy the consists number column from the SWLACT file into the TDB file, then sort theTDB file by consist number, thus regrouping the markers together by region. Once the regions named, I will remove the column. A bit risky but will help greatly in region naming.

In one region, you can have some duplicate siding names. I will have to add the area to the duplicate sidings to differentiate them . So far I have started working on the first two regions A & B. So far so good, but don't hold your breath, it will be a long process ahead before step three with path naming.

Will update the work as it progresses

Denis

[sgdavis]

Hi to all,

...
a problem occured last night with the AE. The loose consists as well as their numbers dissapeared on the screen, they do not reappear. .

Denis

Denis,

This is a known issue in the MSTS AE and can be fixed. There is some discussion about this on train-sim.com, see "Hit the wrong button somewhere."

There is more on this at Placing loose consist crashes activity editor

There was a file that fixed this called "aefixer1.zip" but it is now only available to those who have paid versions of Conbuilder. Still, if you do have this, you can get it there.

Thanks and good luck,



Steve

[jrmeindl]

Hi Denis,

As Steve pointed out, if you have AE fixer that will correct the issue of consists not appearing. Also, I have a copy of that part of my registry for this reason. If you still have problems and would like the copy, please let me know. It will restore the sections in the registry as they were before this issue.

Jim

[dgionet]

Hi to all,

I am back in business!

But the consist screen problem was not due to something in the registry, but a shrunk-sized ACT file with all loose consists information deleted. The ACT file had gone from about 750KB to 3KB. It may have been my fault, there, not sure. Anyway the day before, I had sent to Steve the ACT file as an attachment file and was able to recover that file to replace the shrunk file. But my problems weren't over. I still couldn't see my consists on the AE screen. I have edited the file as well as another of my templates ACT file and compared. I have found the problem related to parenthesis placement or an extra one which caused the problem. This solved!

The first two regions were finally finished. I have created separately, for testing purposes the first template files with the two regions only. Here are the pictures of the first activity generated by AG4 of what I hope to see one day finished the Burton-Derby template.

Enjoy,

The monster is taking shape!

Denis

[AT RR]

Dennis,
Keep up the good work. I will be interested in the outcome and what was needed to do a route this size. As you know I love the Newark & Jersey city railroad route and have been thinking after I get all the individual railroads upgraded to AG+ of doing a master monster template with all the railroads.

Norman,
Don't give it up your input has been very helpful to me in making the templates.

Peter

[dgionet]

Hi to all,

Here's an update to the work on the Burton-Derby template. Work of assigning regions to all 765 sidings has gone extremely well and is now finished. Quite a surprise, and then it is not. Normally I believe it might have taken maybe a week more. The rapidity in assigning the more that 15 regions is principally due to, during marking of the sidings, tracking the consists numbers with each region on paper making screenshots of the different regions created. The first part was then longer but putting this on paper, region and corresponding consist number was to prepare for the second step.

But before, as you remembered on an earlier of my replies, I copied from the SWLACT file the Consist number column, making sure both SWLACT and SWLTDB files were sorted by track number. The exact match for both files before copying. I then pasted on the left creating a new column in the SWLTDB file. Therefore, when it was time to start assigning, I sorted the SWLTDB file by consist number and after start assigning. Finally, once done, all I had to do is deleting the consist number column to finish the work. Voila! It may be a bit complicated at first, but once understood, you can work it through very quickly.

This experience has been very conclusive. I may make a suggestion here to Steve. I believe that having the consist number column in the SWLTDB should be included too. It may be not as useful for smaller routes but extremely practical for massive routes like this one, as I have just experienced. Combined with good planning, this extra feature may open possibilities to accelerate and further work on much larger routes like the Burton-Derby route. The British have quite a few massive routes including Cannock Chase 5 and North West England 2.1. I believe some of our template designers will follow suit in challenging new frontiers in template making.

I have, as an experiment, put all regions in one single template to find out if AG would open the activity with all regions and its 765 sidings. AG handled it very well and generated an activity with more that 200 cars to work with! Looks good so far for AG. This route, however, takes a lot of muscle out of computers. My PC has a 2Ghz processor with 784MB RAM and a 256MB video card. I was unable to run any act so far when the railcar fill was at 3 or higher. I wish, in such circumstance to have a stronger PC to handle a heavier fill. But for the time being, I can get reasonable fill at one or two. But with it the template is working!

I will start soon with path making, AI traffic configuration, docs...

Quite happy with the outcome so far, getting more confident it will reach the templates page.

More updating to come as it progresses

[dgionet]

In preparation for the path making of the template. This scanned copy of my working paper including the 19 regions gives you an idea of how necessary planning is to work out this route and establish paths and working areas adjacent to them.

[dgionet]

Hi to all,

At last, the Burton-Derby package is now ready for testing. Here are some numbers about the templates; 4 templates: EB, WB, SB and NB, 27 different paths, plenty of AI traffic, 10 per template spreaded everywhere along the route with different paths for each template, 19 regions covered, not to forger the 765 sidings available to the switching fan. The templates vary in length, covering from two to five regions per path.

It has been an mind-exhausting project for me but am very proud I've been able to reach this point. Experience gathered with the former templates and good preparation have been key to a quick finish. The diagram included with my last post was constantly with me and was extremely helpful in path making. I have started testing the different paths. Looks good so far. Will it hold the long run? Time will tell. I may consider releasing it as a beta release but for now I will hold it back and try to test the most possible before making any decision.

If some of you have the route CD and wishes to test it, be my guest! The template package is in a zip file and is available. In the meantine, I will try to figure the mapping of key areas to help with selecting the sidings to service. Remember that it will be necessary to look at the selected areas with the AE to choose your sidings according to the selected path. Not all sidings are serviceable. It would have been too long and impossible to do the marking process for each template just to include the serviceable sidings. Too many paths in any direction, simply impossible.

I'll try to chip in some screenshots during testing of the route as testing progresses.

[dgionet]

Hi everybody,

So far, testing of the template is going well, although not as quick as with some the other stages of its construction. I have been able to test some paths on all templates and am continuing testing. It looks good so far, so does Ai traffic. Am including some shots of some areas during testing.

Enjoy the scenery

Will keep updated its progress