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PRR-Eastern route, First look for a template
dgionet
post Apr 18 2009, 10:59 AM
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Hi to all,

I have taken a first look at the route after downloading it from Train-Sim. Sidings are marked, but how many? With 3000 miles of track, I believe the route has at least twice the number of sidings than the Monon or the Burton-Derby route, that is between 1500 and 1800 sidings. It is "The beast of all beasts". A tremendous route to run at first place. It is installed as a mini route.

Congratulations to all concerned in its construction.

I am looking into how a template package can be done with such massive proportions. I may go probably the same way as Peter did with his NJC route templates. I believe Steve may have to push the envelope again with AG, as it was done once during construction of the Burton-Derby template. I have started to explore the route and found the area covered by the electrification of the PRR, that is from Harrisburg (Enola and Harrisburg yards) going east to the NEC. That means that any player train going west of Harrisburg will be diesel. Very detailed work and my PC can handle it reasonably, in explore mode. With cars, it may be another story. Using the AE will be laborious as the numerous sidings names and Platform names will make it more difficult to navigate along the AE, some toggling of the view menus will be needed to use it efficiently.

If any of you have some additional info or suggestions about the route, let me know. I have started to look around some stock and stock from the Penn Central RR seem more abundant than its predecessor the PRR. However, one recommended download to have is the GG1 Mega pack from Zoza Trains, available at TS ( 200MB+ size) I would suggest to have one timeframe set in the Early 70's, durng the time PC was under Bankruptcy protection and before Conrail took control around 1976. That means the PRR stock could be used as well, despite available in lower numbers.

So anything can go from here as to this great route. No timing set or if this route will ever get a template. Time will tell.

Denis


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Denis Gionet
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xpdingo
post Apr 18 2009, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE(dgionet @ Apr 18 2009, 10:59 AM) *
Hi to all,

I have taken a first look at the route after downloading it from Train-Sim. Sidings are marked, but how many? With 3000 miles of track, I believe the route has at least twice the number of sidings than the Monon or the Burton-Derby route, that is between 1500 and 1800 sidings. It is "The beast of all beasts". A tremendous route to run at first place. It is installed as a mini route.

Congratulations to all concerned in its construction.

I am looking into how a template package can be done with such massive proportions. I may go probably the same way as Peter did with his NJC route templates. I believe Steve may have to push the envelope again with AG, as it was done once during construction of the Burton-Derby template. I have started to explore the route and found the area covered by the electrification of the PRR, that is from Harrisburg (Enola and Harrisburg yards) going east to the NEC. That means that any player train going west of Harrisburg will be diesel. Very detailed work and my PC can handle it reasonably, in explore mode. With cars, it may be another story. Using the AE will be laborious as the numerous sidings names and Platform names will make it more difficult to navigate along the AE, some toggling of the view menus will be needed to use it efficiently.

If any of you have some additional info or suggestions about the route, let me know. I have started to look around some stock and stock from the Penn Central RR seem more abundant than its predecessor the PRR. However, one recommended download to have is the GG1 Mega pack from Zoza Trains, available at TS ( 200MB+ size) I would suggest to have one timeframe set in the Early 70's, durng the time PC was under Bankruptcy protection and before Conrail took control around 1976. That means the PRR stock could be used as well, despite available in lower numbers.

So anything can go from here as to this great route. No timing set or if this route will ever get a template. Time will tell.

Denis


Denis:

During the testing of this route Norm made a template of this route for the authors. Last time I spoke to Norm he was unsure what he was going to do with the template. I believe it needs some changes to fit the release version of the route. He would be the one to talk to in regards to whats involved.

Pete
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dgionet
post Apr 18 2009, 09:04 PM
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Hi Pete,

Thanks for the information. We'll let Norm to look into it and make the proper decision.

Denis


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Denis Gionet
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nbeveridge
post Apr 19 2009, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE(dgionet @ Apr 18 2009, 09:04 PM) *
Hi Pete,

Thanks for the information. We'll let Norm to look into it and make the proper decision.

Denis


Denis,

If you would be interested in starting with my original templates and adjusting them for the public release of the route, please let me know. Otherwise, it is on my "to do list", and I'll get to it eventually.

For the templates I made, the route was divided up into its actual PRR divisions. Otherwise this route is so huge that no template could do it justice. The problem with the templates as they exist now is that they use a certain amount of rolling stock which is available only in the beta version. Most of this rolling stock will never (according to the developers) be released to the public. Consequently, I need to adjust the rolling stock to allow for that which actually is available. This particularly affects the AI passenger trains, which were modeled as close as possible to the actual consists which were listed in the developers' documentation. Also note that not all PRR passenger trains appear in the game (actually less than half do), because of the limitations of the MSTS dispatcher. Further, the freeware GG1's were not available when I started this effort, so some of the passenger trains could now be changed from EMD E's to GG1's.

The chosen paths for all trains (inc. player trains) were based on actual PRR schedules, which were available from the developers.

Note that not all information was consistent, since some consists or schedules were from one year, others from another, etc. This impacted both AI passenger trains, AI freights, and player paths. Every effort was made to stick to the prototype information if possible. Because of all this attention to detail, it took about six months to complete these templates. Most of the information was from the '50's and '60's.

Also, in the latest version of the route, some track changes took place in Philadelphia, so some paths will require adjustments.




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Norman
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dgionet
post Apr 19 2009, 07:42 PM
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Hi Norm,

It is indeed challenging in trying to make a template with little available stock and in the case of the PRR, not much is available out there. So for the public beta release, I believe we may have to distance a bit from the original prototype and change the timeframe to allow extra stock and maybe move to the early 70's.

I have taken a look this week end to the short-lived existence of the Penn Central and here's what was found in wikipedia:

The Penn Central Transportation Company, commonly abbreviated to Penn Central, was an American railroad company that operated from 1968 until 1976. It was created by the merger on February 1, 1968 of the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central Railroad. The New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad was added to the merger at the insistence of the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) on January 1, 1969. Penn Central ended being under Bankruptcy protection until Conrail finally took over in 1976 and started to become profitable again in the early 80's

If the timeframe is set in around the lower 70's, stock from PC, the PRR, some NYC and NH could be used in one proposed template package. That would give us template makers a lot of stock that couldn't be found only for the PRR. On the other hand, some additional information would be needed to have some idea as to the schedules and runs being performed inside the PRR-Eastern route during the PC era. Also to remember that AMTRAK came to existence in 1971, in such case AMTRAK could be used as well for some passenger trains.

I have found about 20 files, including the GG1 Mega set ( 200+MB) from ZozaTrains (including PC, PRR and AMTRAK livery) , the Alco PC Century set ( +32MB) from Hans Gettkant. They would be the proposed main engine packs for the PRR-Eastern. Many of the files are stock packs and not only single components. Norm, do you know anything in terms of Passenger stock from PRR or PC, I cannot find much in TS, it is very limited.

I do not know the limits of each division but believe that will be the key in splitting the route template in four parts, the divisions. Putting the paths first could be done before putting the first marker. Knowing the regions will help a lot in defining the limits and also the number of serviceable sidings nd not to exceed MSTS limitations. Have you found out about how many sidings are present in the route. it is a little like trying to find how many marbles in a big bottle ( a wild guess! )

Since you have already put some time in it, it's all yours with it. If you wish me to intervene, let me know. i'll try to do my best to help.



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Denis Gionet
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nbeveridge
post Apr 20 2009, 06:12 AM
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QUOTE(dgionet @ Apr 19 2009, 07:42 PM) *
Since you have already put some time in it, it's all yours with it.



Steve has suggested that AM will make quick work of changing out rolling stock, so I will take a shot at doing it that way. Failing that, I can change out stock manually, either in AE or with CB. I am not sure when I will get around to doing this. In the short term, I could always post the templates as is, and users can change out their own rolling stock.


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Norman
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sgdavis
post Apr 26 2009, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE(nbeveridge @ Apr 20 2009, 07:12 AM) *
Steve has suggested that AM will make quick work of changing out rolling stock, so I will take a shot at doing it that way. Failing that, I can change out stock manually, either in AE or with CB. I am not sure when I will get around to doing this. In the short term, I could always post the templates as is, and users can change out their own rolling stock.



These templates have now been posted, you can find them on the Templates page.

Thanks Norm!

--Steve


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Steve Davis Skyline Computing SteveDavis@SkylineComputing.com
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