Passing Points Options

[nbeveridge]

I am just curious if any of our template developers are using passing points (or passing paths) in the templates. I have run across several routes where passing points will not work, so as a rule I always direct the player path to the RH track and the AI path to the opposite track. Or in some cases the LH track if the prototype used LH running. Denis? Moe? Pete? Jim? Eric? Don? Peter? Steve?

[jrmeindl]

I am just curious if any of our template developers are using passing points (or passing paths) in the templates. I have run across several routes where passing points will not work, so as a rule I always direct the player path to the RH track and the AI path to the opposite track. Or in some cases the LH track if the prototype used LH running. Denis? Moe? Pete? Jim? Eric? Don? Peter? Steve?

Hi Norman,

I try to stay away from them if I can. Most times I could never get them work properly or they were inconsistant, meaning they sometimes would work and other times they would not. I really believe it has something to do with location and timing of how the player is advancing along it's own path with relation to the AI path.

Jim

[nbeveridge]

Hi Norman,

I try to stay away from them if I can. Most times I could never get them work properly or they were inconsistant, meaning they sometimes would work and other times they would not. I really believe it has something to do with location and timing of how the player is advancing along it's own path with relation to the AI path.

Jim

With a template, you never know how fast or slow a player will work, and this can depend to a large degree on where and how much work is selected. Thus if successful AI traffic is dependent on timing, it will not work in a template. If passing points cause this issue, then maybe we should avoid them.

Anyone else?

[dgionet]

Hi to all,

While waiting for the Blackfoot 2 route to be released, I have done some experimenting on the EB template which included a WB AI train. In the template I had indicated the time the AI train would be reaching the different sidings along the path. Have also indicated the siding capacity for each area. Such situation would have required from the player to determine the area where to take the siding considering both factors before his meet.

As for the passing points, I have been successful with my latest Blackfoot 2 activity in having meets in a one track main line, but only if the player train's path (or the AI if the player path is on the main) to take sidings is set in this way. In AG and in the Blackfoot route, the player train would be normally the one which has lower priority to the other larger trains. But it would not be very realistic to have the player train take every siding to make sure meets are possible. So both player and AI trains had straightforwared paths, even if the player train takes the sidings, this will make meets impossible to achieve, one will stall and end the act.

Such meets can be made possible only if the player train is the higher priority train over all others and the AI paths are set to take every siding in the path. The Blackfoot route operations wouldn't be the proper route to have the player train as higher priority if we want to keep some realism. Maybe one future route will allow some higher-priority scenario for the player train and make meets possible in one track mains.

hope I haven't confused with all this and hope I was able to understand clearly the question

Cheers

[dispatcher]

I am just curious if any of our template developers are using passing points (or passing paths) in the templates. I have run across several routes where passing points will not work, so as a rule I always direct the player path to the RH track and the AI path to the opposite track. Or in some cases the LH track if the prototype used LH running. Denis? Moe? Pete? Jim? Eric? Don? Peter? Steve?

I have not tried activities in a "dark" route as yet but all my others use the same criteria as you. The player train takes RH running and the AI trains therefore become right hand as well. The exception to that is when the industries you need to visit are on the left side. I will direct the player to the left and the AI to the left or the main if that is what it is. Everything is sort of timed as to where a meet would occur and normally they work. Things do change when there is a lot of switching to slow the player train down and I have had to sit in a siding for up to 25 minutes because the dispatcher did not see the next passing track between the player and the AI train as a good place for a meet. That, I suppose is due to the fact that the dispatcher looks ahead two or three blocks and decides to hold the player train and wait. I also notice if you save an activity while an AI train is in those two forward blocks, the dispatcher forgets that the AI train is there and you will have a headon when you run the saved game.

Moe

[nbeveridge]

I also notice if you save an activity while an AI train is in those two forward blocks, the dispatcher forgets that the AI train is there and you will have a headon when you run the saved game.

Moe

I have noticed this also. This, in combination with funny signal scripts on some routes, has caused me to begin to recommend that players should save the activity upon entering each and every passing track, just in case something like this happens. Then, at worst, you have to back up to the previous save. If the player is not in the habit of saving frequently, then the activity may well be lost and the player would have to start over. My suggestion of saving when entering the track is so that if you find the AI train coming at you, then when you restart you will have time to stop the train. If you save at the end of the passing track while the player train is at speed, then you are doomed regardless.

[jrmeindl]

I have noticed this also. This, in combination with funny signal scripts on some routes, has caused me to begin to recommend that players should save the activity upon entering each and every passing track, just in case something like this happens. Then, at worst, you have to back up to the previous save. If the player is not in the habit of saving frequently, then the activity may well be lost and the player would have to start over. My suggestion of saving when entering the track is so that if you find the AI train coming at you, then when you restart you will have time to stop the train. If you save at the end of the passing track while the player train is at speed, then you are doomed regardless.

To add to Norm's reasoning, I also save before leaving the siding and doing any switching that might be called for off that passing siding. Any reverse moving by a player train will trick the AI dispatcher to allow traffic to continue on it's way if it is near any passing siding up the mainline causing head on meets as well. At times, the player might get a green at the next coverging switch, when in reality the AI train might already be in that block making it a false signal indication. This way, if I get caught, I restart and hold my train at the switch until the traffic passes. In the real world, the signals should all go red to the next passing siding once a train enters the single track, but in our world here that is not always the case. AI dispatchers will at times, give orders for trains to pass absolute signals.

Jim

[SurvivorSean]

Timing is very critical in use of passing paths. But I find it is much more critical when a player service is late vs. being early. There are a few things I find that help a player service with templates and that is DRP's (Double Reverse Points) and Waiting Points (Need Bin to get them to work right).

I'm currently developing templates for the new version of the CSX W&A and as I've indicated on train-sim passing paths are working quite well. As it turns out it was pure luck, but the W&A just happens to have what I call even nodes between the mainline and sidings. A node automatically gets generated on switch points, or various lengths of track. What often happens in most routes however is too many switches are on one track vs. the other. So you might think what is the big deal? When you actually go into highlighting optional in the path editor watch what highlights very carefuly. When nodes are uneven unfortunately MSTS gets very confused and you may end up highlighting the siding you want, but the mainline counterpart may wind up being miles away. This isn't always critical except when siding are very close and/or many nodes/switches are present. You may actually end up setting the optional path intended for one siding all the way out on the main and into the next siding.

Multiple paths in templates are great, however if your going to generate AI traffic based on your service you need to go back into the AE and change the service accordingly. This is because the AE will save the activity timing based on the service. One service may take more time switching a particular region vs another path's service. I use 3 programs to generate my random activities Activity Generator, Activity Changer, and the MSTS Activity Editor. I first go into the AE and make sure I have changed the service/time to the path I intend to generate and save. I then go into Activity Changer and generate random AI traffic. I then go back into the AE and run the VCR mode for the amount of time (plus an allowance for potential meets). I keep the line off the screen so that I don't know what the traffic is doing. Once the time has expired I then stop the VCR and look at the line to make sure both the player and AI services have run their course. If there are any services still on screen, I try and isolate the issue. Sometimes there is just too much traffic, services that are too long for sidings, or other issues that needs to be tweaked. Over time I fine tune these issues and it only gets better. Once I'm happy that the timing is OK I then run the appropriate path in Activity Generator.

Of course there is no guarantees with MSTS but using DRP's and waiting points along with specific paths in Activity Generator goes a long way. I find if you are later than what you have set with the waiting point the AI services will deviate from the VCR plan. However being early is much more forgiving as it will hold you longer if necessary. I put a DRP in every location that I require a service to activate once switching a region is complete. Think of it like a crew calling the dispatcher for a signal. The beauty of this is your path doesn't prematurely clears too far ahead too fast. I'll post another message in another topic pertaining to my W&A templates that are under development.

Thanks

Sean