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Ohio Rail Build 10, Upgrading to AG4
dgionet
post Feb 5 2010, 08:51 PM
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Hello to all,

Following a request from one of our users and also with Steve's permission, since he worked the template package for AG3. I have started working on a AG4 template package for the Ohio Rail build 10 route. Thanks again Steve!

Markers have been put on all 333 sidings and there is still lots of work ahead. Eight templates are expected in the package: NB, SB, YARDS and the LOCALS Templates for each the OR&W and the WV&O railroads. A lot of work has been done on the first 2 templates, the YARDS for both railroads, mostly done. The user will be able to choose to do some yard work in 13 different areas with close to 20 starting points. Zanesville have three starting points which the user can choose to start. Some have two starting points like in McConnelsville, Mt.Ephraim, the Byesville-Cambridge, the Caldwell-Florence or the Unionville-Otten Lumber areas.

For both the YARDS templates alone, there are 21 AI trains, mostly eye candy traffic and is not expected to interfere with the area of your work chosen. I have successfully done my first SLG-Generated act in Swik. The required stock package is expected to be among those dedicated for the OH10 route. In addition, I am including a MP15DC package from TS and the MP15DC will be the player engines for the YARDS template in both OR&W and WV&O liveries, as you can see a screenshot of the OR&W version.

Here is a teaser shot, the only one taken so far (Otten Lumber area) as there is lots of work ahead and some head scratching as I am progressing in the package.

Will update later



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dgionet
post Feb 11 2010, 08:19 PM
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Hi to all,

I have finally finished working on the Ohio 10 template package and am ready to start testing. A lot of work has been done to have it finished. Here are some of the numbers that go with the templates if it holds on during testing. There are 8 templates (NB, SB, YARDS and LOCALS for each the OR&W and WV&O RR's), 66 different consists (8 player and 58 AI traffic), 92 different paths (51 player and 41 AI paths) and 66 services files. The whole template package has been built on the following pattern: The mainline trains (NB and SB's) will handle mainly mainline runs between the main yards with some pickups along the mainline. The LOCALS trains will do some local runs between the main Yards and smaller localities while the YARDS trains will handle within their limits their cars and to assemble the cars for the local short runs or the mainline runs. The most difficult templates done were the LOCALS since I have created return paths for 18 local runs and that needed to redefine each region in the TDB files, as introduced last year with the Jaskisér-Nagybereg route templates.

Maps have to be done and believe there will be lots of work to do and once finished it will definitely help with the work selection.

That's it so far and will update as I progress in testing the whole package.


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dgionet
post Feb 11 2010, 09:48 PM
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The first screenshots.











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Denis Gionet
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pensfan17
post Feb 12 2010, 07:28 AM
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Looking good Denis!

Al
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sgdavis
post Feb 12 2010, 11:41 AM
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Wow this is impressive! I am curious about the need for maps - I thought Rich Garber had included maps or maybe Craig Kawahara had some out?

I look forward to posting and then trying this template for one of the all-time great routes.

--Steve Davis



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dgionet
post Feb 12 2010, 12:04 PM
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Hi Steve,

Unfortunately, the usual maps referred to do not have the marker's orientation which is key to determine if any work can be done on such sidings, depending on the direction of the activity. However the user can use the available maps and mark himself on each siding where is located the marker.

In my early use of AG, I have found deception when finding out that the designated siding to have work on, when arriving there, was on the wrong direction and couldn't finish the act. This is why I have decided to build maps from the AE (with screenshots) with the marker's orientation. This helped me a lot then and today as well and am happy to share the idea with our users. Of course they can use any set of maps they feel comfortable to use with.


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sgdavis
post Feb 12 2010, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE(dgionet @ Feb 12 2010, 12:04 PM) *
Hi Steve,

Unfortunately, the usual maps referred to do not have the marker's orientation which is key to determine if any work can be done on such sidings, depending on the direction of the activity. However the user can use the available maps and mark himself on each siding where is located the marker.

In my early use of AG, I have found deception when finding out that the designated siding to have work on, when arriving there, was on the wrong direction and couldn't finish the act. This is why I have decided to build maps from the AE (with screenshots) with the marker's orientation. This helped me a lot then and today as well and am happy to share the idea with our users. Of course they can use any set of maps they feel comfortable to use with.


Denis

Please help me to understand, what do you mean by the "direction" of the siding? Do you mean whether it is a trailing-point (can be switched from the rear of the engine) or facing point (would require the front coupler?) Or is this something else. I have not found that MSTS siding markers had a "direction".


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nbeveridge
post Feb 12 2010, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE(dgionet @ Feb 12 2010, 12:04 PM) *
Hi Steve,

In my early use of AG, I have found deception when finding out that the designated siding to have work on, when arriving there, was on the wrong direction and couldn't finish the act. This is why I have decided to build maps from the AE (with screenshots) with the marker's orientation. This helped me a lot then and today as well and am happy to share the idea with our users. Of course they can use any set of maps they feel comfortable to use with.


Like Steve, I assume that by "the wrong direction " you mean that when you arrive at the track, it is facing point and you must use the front coupler. You also need a runaround track. Sometimes a runaround track is miles away from the track in quesiton. This is a real life situation for the prototype. And it is a lot of fun in the simulator!

Some users have suggested (demanded?) to me that all templates should be set up so that only trailing point work is possible. Some users have even insisted that facing point work is not possible and have demanded that I show them move by move how to do it. This is okay with me -- I enjoy helping others to have the fun of facing point! Want to discuss a double saw?

We have many users who relish the facing point challenges, including those wherein no runaround track is nearby. So in order to satisfy all users, I always include the facing point tracks, but I state in the user documentation that in general the user should generate an activity for trailing point tracks only. I then explain a little about the need for a runaround track, and that some facing point work will require extra planning beyond just moving the player train to the vicinity industry track. If a map is available, I refer the user to the map as a guide in creating activities.


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dgionet
post Feb 12 2010, 07:12 PM
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Hi Steve and Norm,

Thanks for your replies and also to helping me to understand more the exact signification of facing point and trailing point sidings(My English is not as good as my French). This is one thing I had some trouble grasping their respective signification. Think I got it today!




The Image above shows Dale on the Ohio River 10 route with its four sidings, all accessible on one side only. The 2 sidings to the left are better serviced by Northbound (NB) trains since the markers and the sidings are set up to be easier serviced by NB's. All the NB train has to do is back up to the sidings to pickup the cars. That's why I say that the markers (and the sidings as well,from my personal perspective of course!) are NB oriented. That doesn't mean that the SB trains cannot handle them as well, They can pickup cars with the front coupler but cannot set any cars there unless backing up inside. It will require some runarounds here and in some other areas it may need more complex switching to work with facing point sidings.

That's no problem if there is no AI traffic and the user can take all the time needed to do it.In most of the templates, I try to set some AI traffic every 1¼ to 2 hours between them to add some realism but at the same time to give time to the users to have some switching done between AI trains if required. There are some templates I have done that have no AI traffic because only one daily train ( the player train) makes a return trip in this area,like for the Quebec-Charlevoix template.

Unless someone doesn't like to wait a little for AI, he can always activate the "NO AI" feature of AG. But as we know, most lines have realistically some traffic to different degrees. In such case, the player train have to plan more wisely its moves and will have to take in consideration the traffic patterns and also MSTS limitations in handling AI traffic. That is one of the main reasons to use the maps with their marker's orientation if he wants to select less complex switching and to be done in a quicker way than those requiring some runarounds or more complex moves.

So in the case of NB trains, I believe to understand, with Steve's explanations, that both sidings to the left are trailing point sidings for the NB trains while the other two sidings on the right are considered facing point sidings for the same NB trains.Am I right?

The same principle applies for the two sidings on the right with both markers oriented SB, being better serviced by SB trains and so on. With sidings that are accessible on both sides, Orientation of the markers is to consider if you wish to have some less complex switching. Of course that sould not be a concern to anyone who wants some complex switching and maps may not be needed for such a player.

About having both face point and trailing point sidings available to templates; It is a definite yes for me. There have been some rare exceptions like the NP line between Haugan and Rivulet on the MILW Rocky mountain Sub 4 Route. There were so little sidings to be serviced and so great distance to cover that I felt to have all possible sidings markers set to be trailing point to increase switching possibilities. But in general, it is good for the user to have all sidings, trailing and facing points on the same package to give the user the choice of less or more complex sidings. The provided maps I usually include will help the user who wish less complex switching like myself. With both types of tracks present ( facing point and trailing), the user can, by choice, select the degree of difficulty he wants to do work.He may decide to select personally the sidings with the maps or, for the more experienced switchers, let AG do the selection and in case not need the maps.

Yes, Norm, about the experience referred to it was about facing point sidings. And again, thanks Steve to have this cleared in my mind.

Well, back to work with the template package. Will update later of its progress


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dgionet
post Feb 12 2010, 09:26 PM
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Hi again,

Just a new and recent development about the maps. I have looked at Rich's maps and have decided not to make addtional maps for the route with the markers' orientation. If needed, the user can take the same maps and mark himself the position of the markers to help in work selection if needed. It is satisfactory enough for me and will use them and mark myself the position of the markers. So I will be saving some time here and concentrate more on the testing.



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nbeveridge
post Feb 12 2010, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE(dgionet @ Feb 12 2010, 07:12 PM) *
Hi Steve and Norm,

Thanks for your replies and also to helping me to understand more the exact signification of facing point and trailing point sidings(My English is not as good as my French). This is one thing I had some trouble grasping their respective signification. Think I got it today!


The Image above shows Dale on the Ohio River 10 route with its four sidings, all accessible on one side only. The 2 sidings to the left are better serviced by Northbound (NB) trains since the markers and the sidings are set up to be easier serviced by NB's. All the NB train has to do is back up to the sidings to pickup the cars. That's why I say that the markers (and the sidings as well,from my personal perspective of course!) are NB oriented. That doesn't mean that the SB trains cannot handle them as well, They can pickup cars with the front coupler but cannot set any cars there unless backing up inside. It will require some runarounds here and in some other areas it may need more complex switching to work with facing point sidings.

That's no problem if there is no AI traffic and the user can take all the time needed to do it.In most of the templates, I try to set some AI traffic every 1¼ to 2 hours between them to add some realism but at the same time to give time to the users to have some switching done between AI trains if required. There are some templates I have done that have no AI traffic because only one daily train ( the player train) makes a return trip in this area,like for the Quebec-Charlevoix template.

Unless someone doesn't like to wait a little for AI, he can always activate the "NO AI" feature of AG. But as we know, most lines have realistically some traffic to different degrees. In such case, the player train have to plan more wisely its moves and will have to take in consideration the traffic patterns and also MSTS limitations in handling AI traffic. That is one of the main reasons to use the maps with their marker's orientation if he wants to select less complex switching and to be done in a quicker way than those requiring some runarounds or more complex moves.

So in the case of NB trains, I believe to understand, with Steve's explanations, that both sidings to the left are trailing point sidings for the NB trains while the other two sidings on the right are considered facing point sidings for the same NB trains.Am I right?

The same principle applies for the two sidings on the right with both markers oriented SB, being better serviced by SB trains and so on. With sidings that are accessible on both sides, Orientation of the markers is to consider if you wish to have some less complex switching. Of course that sould not be a concern to anyone who wants some complex switching and maps may not be needed for such a player.

About having both face point and trailing point sidings available to templates; It is a definite yes for me. There have been some rare exceptions like the NP line between Haugan and Rivulet on the MILW Rocky mountain Sub 4 Route. There were so little sidings to be serviced and so great distance to cover that I felt to have all possible sidings markers set to be trailing point to increase switching possibilities. But in general, it is good for the user to have all sidings, trailing and facing points on the same package to give the user the choice of less or more complex sidings. The provided maps I usually include will help the user who wish less complex switching like myself. With both types of tracks present ( facing point and trailing), the user can, by choice, select the degree of difficulty he wants to do work.He may decide to select personally the sidings with the maps or, for the more experienced switchers, let AG do the selection and in case not need the maps.

Yes, Norm, about the experience referred to it was about facing point sidings. And again, thanks Steve to have this cleared in my mind.

Well, back to work with the template package. Will update later of its progress



Denis,

I was pretty sure that you normally include both facing and trailing point tracks in your templates. I have enjoyed several activities generated by your templates, and I would have noticed if they did not include any facing point tracks. But I did not realize that you did not understand the terminology. Please forgive me.

Your templates are good, even without maps. So if maps are easy to provide, then go for it. If not, well, maybe someone else like schematic meister Craig Kawahara will do the map.


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dgionet
post Feb 16 2010, 06:19 PM
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Hi to all,

Some updates were done since my last post and the number of player and traffic paths have reached 103. That includes some traffic along the Ohio River with the barges.

With all that work to test, if some of you wish to test the templates, PM me with your E-mail. I will send you the package. I will need two testers only.

Other thing, I have purchased this week-end Richard's Ohio Upgrade and the updated scenery looks great. Also, as pointed out by Steve on the templates page about the upgrade , all signalling have been elimitated inside branch lines. This will avoid some inconveniences of toggling to permissive mode, etc when working inside branch lines, like for example in Swik.

Here are some additional images taken with the Ohio route upgrade and from AG acts..

Besco

McConnelsville

Swik

Delaney Steel

Marietta


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nbeveridge
post Feb 20 2010, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE(dgionet @ Feb 16 2010, 06:19 PM) *
Hi to all,

Some updates were done since my last post and the number of player and traffic paths have reached 103. That includes some traffic along the Ohio River with the barges.

With all that work to test, if some of you wish to test the templates, PM me with your E-mail. I will send you the package. I will need two testers only.

Other thing, I have purchased this week-end Richard's Ohio Upgrade and the updated scenery looks great. Also, as pointed out by Steve on the templates page about the upgrade , all signalling have been elimitated inside branch lines. This will avoid some inconveniences of toggling to permissive mode, etc when working inside branch lines, like for example in Swik.

Here are some additional images taken with the Ohio route upgrade and from AG acts..


Denis,

So, the template is being designed for the upgrade? Will it work for both? I personally would prefer a template with the upgrade, but I am sure that many users are still with the standard installation.

EXCELLENT work, as expected, Denis!


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Norman
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dgionet
post Feb 21 2010, 04:11 PM
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Hello to all,

Testing of the templates is going well. I am not alone with the testing. Al (pensfan) and Ted (smokeytc) are giving a hand with providing regular reports of their test findings, suggestions and am appreciative of their time to help me work out that huge package. I have been mostly working on the YARDS and LOCALS Templates and am providing some shots of the activities. Changes were made so far to some paths, consists,traffic schedules and also added an extra path.

Norm, the whole template package had been created before the upgrade. Once construction was finished, I got the upgrade and installed it before testing. Testing looks good for both versions, upgrade or not, to what I am seeing so far. Good thing Richard eliminated signalling inside the branchlines.

So the test continues and will update later

Marietta Oil area


Above Sarahville


Working inside Sarahville


The next two inside Mt.Ephraim logging area




A pair from the McConnelsville wharf ( with some naval traffic)




The last two at Zanesville




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Denis Gionet
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dgionet
post Feb 27 2010, 09:05 PM
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Hello to all,

Testing the templates is continuing and goes well. I am getting help with reports from testers, taking extra time before uploading the package and working on a detailed readme file, trying to include as much information as possible. Small adjustments are done this and there to fine tune the whole package.

I am including some shots of newly AG-generated acts from Tessmocker, Caldwell, Marietta, Cambridge and Peterson.I am hoping to have the complete package released in about a week's time if everything gets ready.























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Denis Gionet
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dgionet
post Mar 3 2010, 06:52 AM
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Hello to all,

I have received the go ahead from Ted (smokeytc) and Al (pensfan) to upload the template package. Myself have been busy also in testing and fine tuning the whole template package.It has been sent to Steve for uploading. Thanks to both of them for their contribution in helping me with the testing. It would have been a lot longer without them. To give you an idea of the extent of the work done, here's the final count about the whole package: 8 templates, 67 consists, 103 paths (58 player and 45 AI),69 service files ans 8 traffic files. There is lots of information inside the readme file. Please read it carefully.

I want to thank again Steve for allowing me to work on a update for his previous template done for AG3.It has been quite a job doing this one,have enjoyed it and am glad it's done. Hope you will enjoy it as well. There will be lots and lots of possibilities with the package.

Here are the last pictures taken from the latest AG-generated acts.

Be on the lookout for the package soon!













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Denis Gionet
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dgionet
post Mar 4 2010, 04:46 PM
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The template is now available in the templates page.

Thanks again Steve and enjoy!


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Denis Gionet
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