BNSF Scenic Sub V2 Options

[dgionet]

Information provided by Ted is conclusive of the problem we have with the full install and the Updated version as to the placement of some of the rolling stock in the TRAINSET folder.

In the full install version of the route (as I see the screens provided by Ted), all the rolling stock is included in the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder while the updated version of the same route have some of the rolling stock remaining in the SLI.FREIGHT folder

The present template has been done using the original and upgrade to version 2 of the route. Editing of the consists (CON files) created with the current template contain the name of the file and its location within MSTS. Since the location of some of the files differ in both situations, this is the reason Ted has problems with missing consists. That means Ted has the full install version of the route, hence the current issue.

The consists for the updated version of the route will be edited and modified to take into account the location of the rolling stock in the full install version. I will be sending to Steve an updated template package as soon as possible, the complementary consists package for the full install version and some additional details in the readme file to address the issue.

Thanks

[dgionet]

Ted,

Here is included as an attachment the modified consist files for the full install version to replace the other consist files you have.

Can you check it out and confirm they are OK with your version. I will wait your reply before sending an update to Steve.

Thanks

Denis

Attached File(s)

 SCENIC2_Template_Consists_for_Full_Install_Version.zip ( 18.93K ) Number of downloads: 66

 

[smokeytc]

Ted,

Here is included as an attachment the modified consist files for the full install version to replace the other consist files you have.

Can you check it out and confirm they are OK with your version. I will wait your reply before sending an update to Steve.

Thanks

Denis

Thanks Denis -I will run some acts today and tomorrow, and see how it goes. Will advise. Ted

[smokeytc]

Here is 1st one - SCENIC2EASTSLOPELOCALEB see attachment  missing_cars1.txt ( 2K ) Number of downloads: 110
issing_cars1.txt]

[smokeytc]

Here is 1st one - SCENIC2EASTSLOPELOCALEB see attachment  missing_cars1.txt ( 2K ) Number of downloads: 110
issing_cars1.txt]

here is 2nd one SCENIC2EASTSLOPELOCALWB -see attach  missing_cars_2.txt ( 1.32K ) Number of downloads: 99

[smokeytc]

here is 2nd one SCENIC2EASTSLOPELOCALWB -see attach  missing_cars_2.txt ( 1.32K ) Number of downloads: 99

Okay this is the last one... redid SCENIC2EASTSLOPELOCALEB , but this time with no AI traffic. I also copied the file SLI_BNSF_ Freight and pasted it into SLI.FREIGHT, but there are still cars missing as you can see by the 3rd attachmwnt. Also engines missing. I guess we have to have the complete rolling stock files from V1, (Which I requested from Streamlines - and so far have been ignored)
I don;t know what else to do, Denis - back to your court...  missing_cars3.txt ( 1.45K ) Number of downloads: 100

[dgionet]

Hi Ted,

I have found out something else which will have to be changed also. All the default ACT files contain all the markers for which have also their proper location, most in the SLI.FREIGHT folder All ACT files will be edited to change the location to the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder.

As a write, I am creating a mini route which will contain only the Scenic 2 full install configuration. I will load the actual template set with the corrected consists and will work to make the changes. All the stock in the SLI.FREIGHT folder will be transferred to the new SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder, just the way it has been installed with the new configuration. I may find some additional messages and will try to correct the problems. Once everything is clear, I will probably upload a second template for the full install route.

Will get back as soon as possible hard at work with this.

[dgionet]

see next post

[dgionet]

Hi again Ted,

I have noticed the absence of the BNSF_8_40B_8621 and the 8630's in your SLI.BNSF folder . I have checked at SLI and looked at the description of the rolling stock included. It looks that they were scrapped with the v2 full install.

Will have to change instead to sd40-2's

More to come

Thanks

[dgionet]

The Template package for the Scenic 2 Upgrade Route has been updated, removing the Dash 8-40B's and being replaced by SD40-2's. Also I have made the same with the full install version. I have re-edited all CON and ACT files and have changed the folder name reference for all rolling stock to the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder from the SLI.FREIGHT folder.

My findings and information from Ted seem to suggest that installation of the v2 upgrade over the original v1 did not delete the Dash8-40B's. That is why I used them in the templates, believing that both installations should end up with the same product, which don't seem to be the case here, in addition to the Folder issue.

I am including what I believe should be the final update for those using the v2 Full install route.

Can you Ted give it a shot with the following attachment? Let me know of the results.

Once confirmed, I will send an updated template package which will include the complementary files for those using the full install route.

Thanks

Attached File(s)

 Scenic2_Template_Update_for_Full_Install_Route.zip ( 60.59K ) Number of downloads: 76

 

[smokeytc]

The Template package for the Scenic 2 Upgrade Route has been updated, removing the Dash 8-40B's and being replaced by SD40-2's. Also I have made the same with the full install version. I have re-edited all CON and ACT files and have changed the folder name reference for all rolling stock to the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder from the SLI.FREIGHT folder.

My findings and information from Ted seem to suggest that installation of the v2 upgrade over the original v1 did not delete the Dash8-40B's. That is why I used them in the templates, believing that both installations should end up with the same product, which don't seem to be the case here, in addition to the Folder issue.

I am including what I believe should be the final update for those using the v2 Full install route.

Can you Ted give it a shot with the following attachment? Let me know of the results.

Once confirmed, I will send an updated template package which will include the complementary files for those using the full install route.

Thanks

Thanks again Denis, will give it a try tomorrow
Ted

[smokeytc]

Thanks again Denis, will give it a try tomorrow
Ted

Sorry big D, but these cars are still missing from V2 (see attach)  missing_cars_4.txt ( 1.71K ) Number of downloads: 124

Engines look OK now and puts SD420's as player consist, but these cars are only in V1
I guess the .csv files have to be edited. for example - the V2 list 2 BNSF centrebeam cars by number, eg. 12345678, but the act calls for "centrebeam1" and "centrebeam2", and no "husky" cars either. you can see by the attach
Ted

[dgionet]

Hi Ted,

Thanks for your quick feedback.

I am considering re-installing from zero the route, that is v1 first and then the upgrade to have a double check at each phase and trying to make sure my earlier installation of the route was properly done. It is unfortunate I don't have the full install version to compare. I will make again the comparison with your list of engines and rolling stock inside both folders, they are the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT and the SLI.BNSF folders. Once done, I'll figure out the next step to do with the template update.

Ted, can you resend me the complete rolling stock list inside the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder. I cannot read the cars on the extreme right.

To those using the v1 and the upgrade, if your MSTS folder contain the SLI SCENIC2 (BNSF_Scenic folder) route (and no other SLI routes) in your ROUTES folder, can you confirm the presence of both SLI.FREIGHT and SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT for the freight cars in your TRAINSET folder? I would like some feedback from others as well.

For those using the full install, like Ted and with the same conditions as above, can you confirm the absence of the SLI.FREIGHT folder in your TRAINSET folder.

That will help. Will try to figure out the next step.

Thanks

Denis

[smokeytc]

Hi Denis - here is the BNSF_FREIGHT file

[dgionet]

Hi again,

I have made a parallell installation in a mini-route folder of the v1 and after the v2.I have looked at all the TRAINSET folders in v1, then in v2 and made comparisons. After, I have compared with Ted's folders for the Full install version.

Here's the rundown for the Freight rolling stock: the v2 upgrade installation has left the SLI.FREIGHT folder (from v1) untouched in the TRAINSET folder in addition to the newly installed folder named SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT (v2). The Full install installed only the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder. Being unaware of the difference (nobody would have noticed it unless havng both upgrade and full install versions), I have used all stock from that folder. That means that the 40+ pieces of stock used from the SLI.FREIGHT folder are not being used in the full install version. Ted's intervention has shed light on differences found between the upgrade and full install versions. Trying to change the stock in all 8 templates would become a major headache.

Also as found earlier, the Dash8-40B were not installed in v2 as it was in v1 and v2 added SD70MAC engines.

This leaves two options : scrap completely the current Scenic2 upgrade version template package and re-create a new template package with only stock from the v2 for all users (upgrade of full install) or leave the current v2 upgrade template available for our v2 upgrade users and create one specifically for the full install version.

I believe this is the first time I experience this with a upgrade version vs full install version of any route.

From here, I will listen to your comments and will figure out what's the best to do with this issue.

Thanks

[smokeytc]

Hi again,

I have made a parallell installation in a mini-route folder of the v1 and after the v2.I have looked at all the TRAINSET folders in v1, then in v2 and made comparisons. After, I have compared with Ted's folders for the Full install version.

Here's the rundown for the Freight rolling stock: the v2 upgrade installation has left the SLI.FREIGHT folder (from v1) untouched in the TRAINSET folder in addition to the newly installed folder named SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT (v2). The Full install installed only the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT folder. Being unaware of the difference (nobody would have noticed it unless havng both upgrade and full install versions), I have used all stock from that folder. That means that the 40+ pieces of stock used from the SLI.FREIGHT folder are not being used in the full install version. Ted's intervention has shed light on differences found between the upgrade and full install versions. Trying to change the stock in all 8 templates would become a major headache.

Also as found earlier, the Dash8-40B were not installed in v2 as it was in v1 and v2 added SD70MAC engines.

This leaves two options : scrap completely the current Scenic2 upgrade version template package and re-create a new template package with only stock from the v2 for all users (upgrade of full install) or leave the current v2 upgrade template available for our v2 upgrade users and create one specifically for the full install version.

I believe this is the first time I experience this with a upgrade version vs full install version of any route.

From here, I will listen to your comments and will figure out what's the best to do with this issue.

Thanks

Well. I already asked for a refund from SLI (and was ignored) with the intention of reordering the V1 plus the update, but guess I am stuck with V2. Anything you decide Denis is Ok, but keep in mind the future buyers that won't understand why the AG won't work. As I told Mr. Meindel, it's not about now - it's about forever.
Thanks for you efforts to date. Ted (usually happy in railroading)

[smokeytc]

Denis - this is the latest from SLI help desk. So if you are leaving the templates as they are now, I can buy the V1 route for $13.50 to get the rolling stock. If, however, you decide to revamp the templates to work with V2, then I will stay with what I have. Your pick -obviously less work for you, but will still be confusing and expensive for future buyers of V2. (this Chris guy doesn't seem to realize that they messed up by changing the stock) Ted

Date: 2011-07-08 00:40:25
Name: Chris Nelson
Message:

Ted,
The Scenic Sub version 1 is still available for $13.50 on the website, and it comes with all the rollingstock you'd need. As such, it isn't really fair to ask me to pass along rollingstock for free that you would have to pay for. It is not the fault of StreamLines that the makers of the activity templates messed up, so why ask us to pay for their mistakes?

Kind Regards,

Chris Nelson
Stream Lines Corp. - Helpdesk

[sgdavis]

Denis - this is the latest from SLI help desk. So if you are leaving the templates as they are now, I can buy the V1 route for $13.50 to get the rolling stock. If, however, you decide to revamp the templates to work with V2, then I will stay with what I have. Your pick -obviously less work for you, but will still be confusing and expensive for future buyers of V2. (this Chris guy doesn't seem to realize that they messed up by changing the stock) Ted

Date: 2011-07-08 00:40:25
Name: Chris Nelson
Message:

Ted,
The Scenic Sub version 1 is still available for $13.50 on the website, and it comes with all the rollingstock you'd need. As such, it isn't really fair to ask me to pass along rollingstock for free that you would have to pay for. It is not the fault of StreamLines that the makers of the activity templates messed up, so why ask us to pay for their mistakes?

Kind Regards,

Chris Nelson
Stream Lines Corp. - Helpdesk

This isn't really a technical problem that we can fix at Skyline Computing so I've refrained from posting. But given the amount of discussion on this and at Denis' request I am weighing in.

The way I look at it, Denis did a lot of work creating this template, as a hobby and favor to the MSTS/AG community, for no reward or profit. He used the rolling stock he had and was simply unaware of the fact that Streamlines included a different set of rolling stock in their 2.0 version than they included in the 1.0 version. An honest oversight, I wouldn't even go as far as to call it a "mistake".

Now Streamlines is trying to make a profit from creating these products which is their right and in fact as a hobbyist I support that: if they don't make a profit, they won't be able to continue creating routes and rolling stock of such a high quality that we can all enjoy, since doing that requires some level of staffing and investment. I am not sure if their descriptions made it clear that V2 contained different rolling stock than V1 - if they didn't, that is something I'd be miffed about. If they want to sell these as two separate rolling stock packs they have every right to do that, many others do, but they should make it clear.

Now the template end user also has a right to expect that if he/she follows the directions and installs the template, it should run. It is our goal as the software designer and template creators to do our best to insure that happens. To me there are a number of possible fixes, all equally good in my mind:

1. Denis reworks the template to contain only V2 rolling stock.
2. Denis reworks the readme, only, to state that users need to install both V1 and V2 to get all the rolling stock rolling stock packs needed to run the template, OR, the user must use a utility like ConBuilder, RouteRiter, or Activity Master to modify the template to include only the rolling stock on that user's hard drive. Also best case Denis would include a list of all rolling stock used.

But of course Denis is offering his time, creativity and efforts for free for this community and is not obligated to follow any of my suggestions.

So I see no harm or foul here, just a bunch of well-meaning folks all with different expectations. There are many fixes, none of them bad. Some throw the effort on the template creator (Denis), some throw the effort on the end user. Worst case the end user either deletes this template, adds Streamlines' V1, or uses a utility to solve the issue on his/her machine.

Thanks,

Steve

[dgionet]

Hi to all,

While the comments were coming and I thank Steve and Ted for their output, I've done some thinking on my own about what to do now. Since it is better to have only one template package for both type of installations of v2, that is the update and full install, I have asked Steve to scrap the current template on the templates page. Keeping the current set and adding one for the full install will add confusion to which template to use if two templates are present.

That means sadly the end of the current Scenic2 upgrade template set.

But wait, there is more....

Trying to change the stock in all 8 templates would become a major headache.

I've decided, against all expectations to take the bull by its horns and have successfully restored today the EB and WB Templates while keeping all the current template files present. Now the stock present is only the ones from the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT and SLI.BNSF folders. The 8-40B's engine files and the SLI.FREIGHT folder have been removed from the TRAINSET folder. There has been a lot of careful editing of each of the consist files (CON) to replace the missing cars with the current stock used in the full install version. My version of Conbuilder (2.73) helped me to proceed with the change. The missing cars were replaced by a corresponding piece of stock in the new version. It took some time but has been a success. That was the first step, done yesterday.

Second, I have also edited inside the EB Template Activity file (ACT) with Wordpad to replace all the missing stock markers with one car of the current stock and of its proper location (folder in the MSTS folder). Once done, I have copied the EB template ACT file to a different folder and renamed it WB ( since the markers are the same in both directions) and have done some editing and used the MSTS AE to complete the change. The SWLACT, SWLTDB files were also edited in replacing the stock as well and to check the attributes of each of the sidings to make sure it still relevant. I have rechecked the CTP file and had to make some changes since some of the stock in v1 (like the reefers) are absent in v2, that needed to change some of the attributes in the SWLTDB files.

I have generated and started successfully activities in both EB and WB with the new stock

If everything goes as planned, the same procedure will be applied for the other six templates but it will take some time to do. Work on this can be compared to any surgical operation: it is a precision and delicate job. But the end of it will make it a brand new package for which both the upgrade of full install user will enjoy.

Let's hope I'll be able to make it to the finish line with a new set. Glad I can see now some light at the end of the tunnel. Time will tell.

Will update later.

[sgdavis]

Hi to all,

While the comments were coming and I thank Steve and Ted for their output, I've done some thinking on my own about what to do now. Since it is better to have only one template package for both type of installations of v2, that is the update and full install, I have asked Steve to scrap the current template on the templates page. Keeping the current set and adding one for the full install will add confusion to which template to use if two templates are present.

That means sadly the end of the current Scenic2 upgrade template set.

But wait, there is more....



I've decided, against all expectations to take the bull by its horns and have successfully restored today the EB and WB Templates while keeping all the current template files present. Now the stock present is only the ones from the SLI_BNSF_FREIGHT and SLI.BNSF folders. The 8-40B's engine files and the SLI.FREIGHT folder have been removed from the TRAINSET folder. There has been a lot of careful editing of each of the consist files (CON) to replace the missing cars with the current stock used in the full install version. My version of Conbuilder (2.73) helped me to proceed with the change. The missing cars were replaced by a corresponding piece of stock in the new version. It took some time but has been a success. That was the first step, done yesterday.

Second, I have also edited inside the EB Template Activity file (ACT) with Wordpad to replace all the missing stock markers with one car of the current stock and of its proper location (folder in the MSTS folder). Once done, I have copied the EB template ACT file to a different folder and renamed it WB ( since the markers are the same in both directions) and have done some editing and used the MSTS AE to complete the change. The SWLACT, SWLTDB files were also edited in replacing the stock as well and to check the attributes of each of the sidings to make sure it still relevant. I have rechecked the CTP file and had to make some changes since some of the stock in v1 (like the reefers) are absent in v2, that needed to change some of the attributes in the SWLTDB files.

I have generated and started successfully activities in both EB and WB with the new stock

If everything goes as planned, the same procedure will be applied for the other six templates but it will take some time to do. Work on this can be compared to any surgical operation: it is a precision and delicate job. But the end of it will make it a brand new package for which both the upgrade of full install user will enjoy.

Let's hope I'll be able to make it to the finish line with a new set. Glad I can see now some light at the end of the tunnel. Time will tell.

Will update later.

Denis,

This is really above and beyond! Thank you so much, on behalf of all the AG users who will benefit from your efforts!

Sincerely,

Steve Davis